Jackson
Corporal
Dewaholic
Shut up with that filthy pig latin.
Posts: 62
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Post by Jackson on Oct 24, 2005 19:12:21 GMT -5
Mind if I offer my views on this as someone on "the inside"? "That forum which shall remain nameless" management is playing games with us and I'm starting to take offense to it. Right... It's a conspiracy. We the management just live for the day that we play games with the members. That's why we did all this, just to mess with you. Come on, that's total BS. 1) Databases should always, always, always be backed up. The first time the A5OG crashed, it should have been a major indication that daily/weekly backups should be initiated. Blaming the loss of tons of information on a mere system crash is unacceptable. If all of the information from a database can't be safely moved to the new platform, the upgrade isn't done. It's that simple. Can you imagine the chaos if a bank updated it's systems and lost all of their bank account information? Maybe you aren't aware but with the last crash from one of the admins messing with the database, the database was backed up 16 hours before the crash. Perfectly within your limits of weekly/daily. 2) Switching over to this new "That forum which shall remain nameless" setup without consulting the members was a bad move. Unfortunately, we the members don't own the forum. The owners technically can do whatever the hell they want without our consent. Would consent have been nice? Hell yeah. But they did not need it to change the forum. Like it or not, that's unfortunately just the way it is. 3) Quote from mobey: "Guys, Try to hold on and remember we are really just in a Beta version (as we are not open to the world yet)." Mobey, this is totally not our problem. I didn't ask to be a guinea pig and I'm sure no one else on this forum volunteered for the job either. You can't deliver an inferior product to a client, then suddenly decide it's in beta when the client finds that it doesn't work the way it should. What mobey said is true, until the forum opens to the public, it is in beta. That's the way it's always been whether you knew it or not. I agree, the membership shouldn't have been shoved into it in beta but what should have been done once the A5OG was closed? Re-opening it would have been worse than the original closure. This I feel was a blunder that was seriously over-looked. [quote author=MavroI come to this forum to learn things about my marker and to meet people with similar interests. I visit the forum to relax a little and detach myself from work. For the past two months I've learned nothing and find myself leaving the site with more stress than I did coming to it.[/quote] I've felt this way before. My suggestion, take a break for a week and you'll see what you loved in it again. Plus, it's just an online forum, no need to get so stressed about something that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. There are more important things like family and work. Quote from wings: "The A5OG as we all knew it is not going to come back. The "That forum which shall remain nameless" was the next logical evolution and is here to stay. Compaining about what is and wishing for what will never be is not going to help. This forum could have the same feel and family atmosphere that the A5OG contained if the members work together to make it so. As this forum grows we need all those who made up the A5OG to help keep the same level of professionalism, respect, and knowledge we had." Management tells us that the members are the ones that make the atmosphere. True as that may be, don't blame us because your new business venture is heading down the tubes. Most of us are unhappy. You ask us to inform you of our problems. When we do, all you do is scold us for not being the good little children we were in the past; listening to our parents because they said so, not because they were right. Where did this happen? I have yet to see where a member was yelled at for explaining a problem is a calm tone. I have seen a few members get nasty with the management over these problems. That is not acceptable and deserves some verbal warning/scolding. How can you have a friendly environment when the members don't respect each other/the management? Members have expressed their opinions and our only response runs along the lines of, "too bad. Suck it up because we're going to do what we want regardless of what you say." I'm pretty sure this is direct reference to the closure of A5OG. Again, the owners can do what they want. If things went my way, I'd have A5OG and "That forum which shall remain nameless" as 2 seperate forums. Unfortunately, that's not what's going to happen and I've realized the sooner I get that through my head, the easier things will be in this transitional period. I can't believe I'm saying it, but I'm seriously tired of the games and have become turned off to this site. When you guys finally grow up and decide to take this forum as seriously as you once did, shoot me an email and I'll come back to participate as professionally as I once did. My email address is crossfirev8@yahoo.com. I hope this post didn't just buy me a one-way ticket to the "Banned Members" section. If it did, I'm sure I'll see more of you there as your opinions start to take light. Take care, everyone, Mavro Maybe you're taking the forum too seriously? And again, it's obviously a conspiracy that we the management are doing this just to play games with you. In fact, we hated the A5OG and wanted to destroy it! that's why we did the move. Just to piss all the members off!! If you haven't checked the forum lately, a lot has changed in the past few days. Things we rough, but have gotten much smoother. You might want to check it out now and see if things haven't gotten better already. |
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Post by Trigga Nometry on Oct 24, 2005 19:30:15 GMT -5
All good points from both sides. The A-5OG is dead as we know it will not be coming back, end of story. In the end, people will flock to where ever they feel most at home, be it here or somewhere else.
I will say that it is too bad that the A-5OG name could not exist outside of another forum such as this one.
Oh and the whole "elitist" comment, just.....well....spoke volumes and volumes to me about how I now feel about the whole mess.
But hey, time to move on. Good luck to everyone.
Let's get back to the fun! This is about PAINTBALL!!!!
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Jackson
Corporal
Dewaholic
Shut up with that filthy pig latin.
Posts: 62
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Post by Jackson on Oct 24, 2005 19:50:46 GMT -5
Let's get back to the fun! This is about PAINTBALL!!!! Amen!!!! Finally, the first bit of absolute truth to come out of either side. Enough bickering about what was and could be. Why was the A5OG created? To bring people together in a friendly enironment. whether here or at "That forum which shall remain nameless", let's not be at odds with each other, let's remember the A5OG and come together as one. And play some damn fine paintball. |
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Mavro
Corporal
Do or do not. There is no try. -Yoda
Posts: 56
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Post by Mavro on Oct 24, 2005 22:39:38 GMT -5
I was under the impression that we all went through our A5OG venting period and decided to move on to bigger and better things. Unfortunately, Jackson decided to pick my first post apart and make comments that I feel were inappropriate. It sounded like he took what I wrote personally and I want to be the first to disband any notions of that being my intention. With that said, I would like to take this opportunity to respond to these comments as tactfully as I can. Please see my comments in blue. Mind if I offer my views on this as someone on “the inside” "That forum which shall remain nameless" management is playing games with us and I'm starting to take offense to it. Right... It's a conspiracy. We the management just live for the day that we play games with the members. That's why we did all this, just to mess with you. Come on, that's total BS. Maybe you aren't aware but with the last crash from one of the admins messing with the database, the database was backed up 16 hours before the crash. Perfectly within your limits of weekly/daily. Unfortunately, we the members don't own the forum. The owners technically can do whatever the hell they want without our consent. Would consent have been nice? Hell yeah. But they did not need it to change the forum. Like it or not, that's unfortunately just the way it is. What mobey said is true, until the forum opens to the public, it is in beta. That's the way it's always been whether you knew it or not. I agree, the membership shouldn't have been shoved into it in beta but what should have been done once the A5OG was closed? Re-opening it would have been worse than the original closure. This I feel was a blunder that was seriously over-looked. [quote author=MavroI come to this forum to learn things about my marker and to meet people with similar interests. I visit the forum to relax a little and detach myself from work. For the past two months I've learned nothing and find myself leaving the site with more stress than I did coming to it. I've felt this way before. My suggestion, take a break for a week and you'll see what you loved in it again. Plus, it's just an online forum, no need to get so stressed about something that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. There are more important things like family and work. Where did this happen? I have yet to see where a member was yelled at for explaining a problem is a calm tone. I have seen a few members get nasty with the management over these problems. That is not acceptable and deserves some verbal warning/scolding. How can you have a friendly environment when the members don't respect each other/the management?
Members have expressed their opinions and our only response runs along the lines of, “too bad. Suck it up because we're going to do what we want regardless of what you say.” I'm pretty sure this is direct reference to the closure of A5OG. Again, the owners can do what they want. If things went my way, I'd have A5OG and "That forum which shall remain nameless" as 2 seperate forums. Unfortunately, that's not what's going to happen and I've realized the sooner I get that through my head, the easier things will be in this transitional period. I can't believe I'm saying it, but I'm seriously tired of the games and have become turned off to this site. When you guys finally grow up and decide to take this forum as seriously as you once did, shoot me an email and I'll come back to participate as professionally as I once did. My email address is crossfirev8@yahoo.com. I hope this post didn't just buy me a one-way ticket to the "Banned Members" section. If it did, I'm sure I'll see more of you there as your opinions start to take light. Take care, everyone, Mavro Maybe you're taking the forum too seriously? And again, it's obviously a conspiracy that we the management are doing this just to play games with you. In fact, we hated the A5OG and wanted to destroy it! that's why we did the move. Just to piss all the members off!! If you haven't checked the forum lately, a lot has changed in the past few days. Things we rough, but have gotten much smoother. You might want to check it out now and see if things haven't gotten better already.
In closing, I feel that Jackson’s rebuttal would have been better-received by all if it was posted on the "That forum which shall remain nameless" while all the comments were being debated… before the second forum “hiccup” caused everyone's comments to be lost. That's OK, though. I appreciate his honesty and am relieved that "That forum which shall remain nameless" management is taking this seriously.All good points from both sides. The A-5OG is dead as we know it will not be coming back, end of story. In the end, people will flock to where ever they feel most at home, be it here or somewhere else. I will say that it is too bad that the A-5OG name could not exist outside of another forum such as this one. Oh and the whole "elitist" comment, just.....well....spoke volumes and volumes to me about how I now feel about the whole mess. But hey, time to move on. Good luck to everyone. Let's get back to the fun! This is about PAINTBALL!!!! |
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Post by Turtle-Prophet of Doom on Oct 24, 2005 23:18:30 GMT -5
For your information I was told by FLUP in responce to a comment the I can either be part of the solution or part of the problem. That is not the comment to be made while members are deciding to stay or go. Also, where is the rules is it state that in order to have a private section you have to pay? Nowhere as of right now. It's been said before, it's about money now, plain and simple. So many people asked for thing to be put back the way they were and none were heard, even those who offered to buythe URL, and the option of keeping the A5Og was considered...missed opertunity there. They could have had it both ways, happy OGr's and lab rats....
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Post by SilentDeath on Oct 25, 2005 0:59:47 GMT -5
I'm not jumping into this blender full of crap. No thanks.  But I'd just like to point out to Turtle that the "pay-for-private-section" infomation is posted and stickied in each regional section of both the Scenario and Tournament forums of the "That forum which shall remain nameless", and has been there for quite some time. I do not have any ownership of the "That forum which shall remain nameless", so I personally do not know why it costs what it does, but my bet would be to help pay for the added features that come with having a private section. Anyways gentlemen. I'd very much like this to settle and not have it develop into an "us vs. them" type situation (even though it's beginning to look that way). This whole forum-setup experience was a first for most of the "That forum which shall remain nameless" management team, me included. I'll admit, the ride was bumpy, and I sincerely apologize for that. We're doing our best to smooth it out. If you choose not to ride along, hey, that's cool, as long as we can all still talk as friends and meet up at the field to play some ball. |
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Post by Turtle-Prophet of Doom on Oct 25, 2005 1:04:57 GMT -5
But I'd just like to point out to Turtle that the "pay-for-private-section" infomation is posted and stickied in each regional section of both the Scenario and Tournament forums of the "That forum which shall remain nameless", and has been there for quite some time. I do not have any ownership of the "That forum which shall remain nameless", so I personally do not know why it costs what it does, but my bet would be to help pay for the added features that come with having a private section. I appoligize, I did not see the post there, I only check the most obvious places, the private team section,whish I have no access to(unless the SF password is useable) and the forum rules. You may wish to consider adding that to the forum rules to make sure that is something a new member reads up front . |
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Post by Kreeper X on Oct 25, 2005 9:23:15 GMT -5
Anyways gentlemen. I'd very much like this to settle and not have it develop into an "us vs. them" type situation (even though it's beginning to look that way). As would I. This "Us or them" attitude is self destructive. Can the membership of the now dead a5og not like the "That forum which shall remain nameless" and go somewhere else and say that they don't like it? Hell yes they can. The TRUTH is that the "US or THEM" attitude was born out of upper management's position on the issue. If I had a dime for every time I read "The a5og is dead and gone and the "That forum which shall remain nameless" is here to stay, deal with it." I wouldn't have to go to work today. That's not how you deal with an angry customer. Let's say I work for Kmart and I have a customer who is mad because we stopped carrying a certain item that they buy every week. When they complain, I could do everything in my power to make them happy and keep them coming to my store by making A SMALL ADJUSTMENT or I could tell them "If you don't like it go to Walmart." THAT's the problem that I had with the way this thing was handled. We basically told people who were unhappy that they could "go to walmart." Hell, I was specifically told (when I asked why it was the the A-5 was getting third billing in the Tippmann section when the A5OG was supposed to be the heart of the "That forum which shall remain nameless") that no changes would be made. How could the A5OG possibly be the heart of anything when it's reduced to a single lounge in the Tippmann area and reduced to third billing? In all honesty, the A5OG should have been left the way it was, a separated area of the "That forum which shall remain nameless". The different marker sections should not have been called owners groups where there actually were active owners groups on the net. When the POG complained, Zap should have been tripping over himself to change it and make them happy because we ARE making an incursion into their territory. Instead, we get told that they are "elitists" and that we won't change... I agree. This isn't my first dance and it won't be my last, but this could have been handled much better and it could have been done with the opinions and desires of the customer in mind. Instead, we're telling people that they are either "in or out," "part of the solution or part of the problem," "love it or leave it," and "no changes will be made regardless of how much that pisses off the customers." Like it or not, "That forum which shall remain nameless" management fumbled the ball on this one. Myself included. |
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Post by Turtle-Prophet of Doom on Oct 25, 2005 9:50:07 GMT -5
As would I. This "Us or them" attitude is self destructive. Can the membership of the now dead a5og not like the "That forum which shall remain nameless" and go somewhere else and say that they don't like it? Hell yes they can. The TRUTH is that the "US or THEM" attitude was born out of upper management's position on the issue. If I had a dime for every time I read "The a5og is dead and gone and the "That forum which shall remain nameless" is here to stay, deal with it." I wouldn't have to go to work today. That's not how you deal with an angry customer. Let's say I work for Kmart and I have a customer who is mad because we stopped carrying a certain item that they buy every week. When they complain, I could do everything in my power to make them happy and keep them coming to my store by making A SMALL ADJUSTMENT or I could tell them "If you don't like it go to Walmart." THAT's the problem that I had with the way this thing was handled. We basically told people who were unhappy that they could "go to walmart." Hell, I was specifically told (when I asked why it was the the A-5 was getting third billing in the Tippmann section when the A5OG was supposed to be the heart of the "That forum which shall remain nameless") that no changes would be made. How could the A5OG possibly be the heart of anything when it's reduced to a single lounge in the Tippmann area and reduced to third billing? In all honesty, the A5OG should have been left the way it was, a separated area of the "That forum which shall remain nameless". The different marker sections should not have been called owners groups where there actually were active owners groups on the net. When the POG complained, Zap should have been tripping over himself to change it and make them happy because we ARE making an incursion into their territory. Instead, we get told that they are "elitists" and that we won't change... I agree. This isn't my first dance and it won't be my last, but this could have been handled much better and it could have been done with the opinions and desires of the customer in mind. Instead, we're telling people that they are either "in or out," "part of the solution or part of the problem," "love it or leave it," and "no changes will be made regardless of how much that pisses off the customers." Like it or not, "That forum which shall remain nameless" management fumbled the ball on this one. Myself included. OMG, you can't possibly think any of this is your fault! If there is one person I can be sure fought for the OG, I know it was you. You, of all the other staff there, have the highest respect from me and, from me that's a lot. There are far few people in this world I would go to war for or with(as in together) and you are high on that list. |
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Post by Kreeper X on Oct 25, 2005 10:09:07 GMT -5
OMG, you can't possibly think any of this is your fault! If there is one person I can be sure fought for the OG, I know it was you. You, of all the other staff there, have the highest respect from me and, from me that's a lot. There are far few people in this world I would go to war for or with(as in together) and you are high on that list. Matt, we're all to blame in the way it was handled. From top to bottom. We all have some of the blame to carry around for the way the thing was handled. There should never have been a "love it or leave it" post by ANY member of the management where a forum is being put through a BETA... The comments, questions, and complaints SHOULD have been collected and taken into consideration. A lot of them were, but a LOT of them went in one ear and out the other. Yes, I fought for the A5OG as much as I could, but my position on the "That forum which shall remain nameless" is that of a moderator and nothing more. There was really not much of anything I could do but go around and moderate posts and sigs for a beta forum which was running off a group of people that I KNOW I didn't have to do all that much moderating of... It's just that as a supplier of a consumer product, we ALL needed to be more open to the points of view of the consumers. If I could go back in time and change something, it would be that I would have lobbied as long and as forcefully as I could for the A5OG to remain as it was, with the "That forum which shall remain nameless" being a seporate entity alltogether. That way everyone who had no interest in the "That forum which shall remain nameless" or just couldn't get used to the format didn't have to "love it or leave it," and everyone who wanted to be on the "That forum which shall remain nameless" for it's maiden voyage could do so and everyone would have been much happier... There was NO REASON to close the A5OG other than to try and force the membership into using the "That forum which shall remain nameless" and create a "built in" consumer base. I love the idea of the "That forum which shall remain nameless". I hope it works and I'll be there doing what I can to help it grow as long as they will have me. But that doesn't mean that the whole thing was handled correctly... |
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Post by Vashthestampede on Oct 25, 2005 10:12:09 GMT -5
Excellent points being made on both sides, I just wish the a5og wasn't locked so I could pull that post from the NCO club that got me a bunch of flak any of the officers from the a5og know what I am talking about |
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Post by Turtle-Prophet of Doom on Oct 25, 2005 12:59:51 GMT -5
Excellent points being made on both sides, I just wish the a5og wasn't locked so I could pull that post from the NCO club that got me a bunch of flak any of the officers from the a5og know what I am talking about I remember those posts. it is a shame, like I said @ the GLR meeting last night, we were kidnapped. |
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Post by theractersupremacy on Oct 25, 2005 21:13:36 GMT -5
WOW I am so glad that this place exists, Kozz just informed me of it today. And, uh, yea, I'm definaltely dissaponted with the corporate "That forum which shall remain nameless". I havent posted in there, not once. I feel no need, no need at all, what could that massive forum ever gain from me....it only covers every part of paintball in the world ever created....but haha, I'm glad I was pointed to this place. Sweet
Returning to the Holy Land
-TRS
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Post by mobey on Oct 25, 2005 21:54:36 GMT -5
I have to reply to this just because my name has been mentioned.
about the Beta comment;
I honestly believed this was common knowledge. wwwlpbownersgroup.com is not active. (supposed to go live tomorrow btw) And you had to use the back door to get in so I believed it was known by members. My ignorance I am sure and for that I apologize if my statements sounded harsh they weren't meant to be.
I am really sad to see some of the members that have left the "That forum which shall remain nameless" (however I have no ill feelings that they have come here to call home) I lurk here (when I can get in lol) just to see some of the people from the OG that I respect form the old forum. I am a member of many forums and can't imagine anybody having a problem with the OD starting up or people going anywhere for that matter. I do believe it is in bad taste to openly try to lure members from one forum to another (I am not saying that has been done here)
I agree the way things have been handled at "That forum which shall remain nameless" have been iffy at best however I stand firm that things have improved and will continue to do so. I consider myself a valuable member of any forum I use and honestly feel I contribute to each of them. I do have to say that I feel that most of the complaints about "That forum which shall remain nameless" are unfounded or rather unnecessary. With the exception of the communication issues. I believe most of the problems we had could have been solved with information being shared with the membership. I have no answer to why it wasn't as most of it was kept from me as well.
In closing I apologize for any part I may have played in this rift and will close with these words
I love talking paintball, no matter with who or where and will continue to do so in many places.
Good luck I will see you all around.
Mobey
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Post by Vashthestampede on Oct 25, 2005 21:59:55 GMT -5
I believe the problem with the BETA issue was that one should never be forced to use something in Beta form as Beta anything usually denotes something that is not yet ready. I have no problem with members testing it to check for bugs, but to make it the only option really puts many people in a difficult position.
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