Post by 99GenX on Oct 12, 2005 13:31:11 GMT -5
Orig. by Rambino
FAQ: Cyclone Feeder Problems
A relatively common post in this forum is the "my Cyclone isn't feeding," or "my Cyclone is breaking balls." Usually these are actually the same problem. Most Cyclone breaks are from partial or slow turning.
Hopefully this thread can be a collection of suggested checks and fixes. I'll start. The following is mostly a collection of things I have read, and certainly not all my own wisdom.
First: Option B, with any Tippmann gun, is to send it to Tippmann for repairs. They WILL fix your gun, and their interpretation of their own warranty is so liberal that they almost certainly won't charge for labor, no matter how old your gun is, and won't charge for parts either for newer guns. But since it takes some time for the gun to go from here to there and back - time for you without your gun - you should try the hints below first.
Parts references are to the A-5 parts chart.
General Trouble-Shooting: Whenever you have a problem (of any kind), you should first try some basic de-bugging to isolate the source of the problem. Try some different paintballs. Try a different tank. Take off your upgrades and try the gun stock. Mix and match different elements, and before you know it, you will know exactly where the problem lies.
Air Supply: Most Cyclone problems, in my experience, are really an air supply problem. The Cyclone needs a fair amount of air to work, and if it gets starved it won't be happy. The Cyclone is usually the first thing to go, so your gun might be working just fine otherwise, but your Cyclone will skip if it doesn't get enough air.
- Tank. Make sure your tank is full. If you have HPA, make sure the tank has output pressure of at least 750 psi. Make sure the tank valve is fully functional and not obstructed.
- Drive spring/RVA/Stock. If your drive spring is weak, not enough air will get to the gun, and the Cyclone will be starved. Try a different drive spring. If you have a rear velocity adjuster or a stock, or anything else that replaces the endcap, take it off. Some of these don't put enough pressure on the drive spring, which gives the same result as a weak drive spring.
- Regulators: If you have a regulator, make sure you don't have the pressure turned down too low. As with all air problems, your gun might fire fine, and your Cyclone might even keep up, to a point, but insufficient pressure will cause problems. Also remember that the perfect regulator setting for one tank might be too low for another tank, or too low for that same tank when it isn't full.
- On/Offs. Some drop-forwards or ASAs with on/off valves can leak or obstruct air flow if they are opened too much. Dirt and crud can also get caught in on/offs. Make sure the valves are clean. When opening the valves, only open until you reach full pressure, and then another full turn.
- Remotes: There are many places a remote might have a small obstruction or leak. Check each connector, and your slide check if you have one.
- ASA Pins: Some regulators/x-chambers/remotes/adapters push too far into the ASA so that the ASA pin strangles the air. Some ASAs on the tank end of remotes create the same problem. If this is the case, an extra o-ring stuck into the ASA (or remote adapter) will create the extra space needed.
- Leaks: Check hoses, connectors, o-rings. Remember, a small leak might let your gun shoot but still impede the Cyclone. Make sure to check the cup seal 02-63) on the piston (02-54) inside the Cyclone manual advancer. Make sure all o-rings are well oiled.
Friction: The Cyclone needs to be able to turn freely. Make sure your gun is well oiled. Oil in the ASA will make its way into the Cyclone and help it along, but some oil directly in the manual advancer won't hurt either. A little lithium grease under the ratchet (19, 02-53) might also help if the ratchet is not moving smoothly. Make sure that the feeder screw (8, PL-42A) is not tightened so hard that it keeps the ratchet from turning. This screw should be tightened just enough to keep the sprockets in place. To see if you have friction problems, try the manual advancer slowly. There should be some clicks and different degrees of resistance, but the Cyclone should still turn smoothly, and there should be no "hangs" - the Cyclone should keep up with the manual plunger.
Updates: Two updates have been issued for the Cyclone. Both are available free from Tippmann - just call and ask. To check for the first one, take off the bottom plate of your Cyclone (02-44). If the ratchet is black plastic, you do NOT have this update. The updated ratchet is clear plastic. To check for the second update, take a look at the bottom plate itself. The second update is a new bottom plate, and the new bottom plates have an "A" stamped on the outside. Pretty hard to miss. No "A", no update. The first update was intended to stop initial problems with Cyclone breaks resulting from the Cyclone hitting the balls too hard - hence the softer clear ratchet. The second update was intended to keep the first update from backfiring, by stopping "overtravel" of the piston, which the first update parts might allow, which leads to breaks. Tippmann also offers an optional flow control (like the RT flow control), for $15. Not usually required, it may give additional assurance when using brittle paint, by allowing you to limit the amount of air to the Cyclone.
Worn Ratchet: A common problem, mostly for people with the first update but not the second, but not impossible in other situations. If your Cyclone starts increasingly skipping shots (and you are shooting blanks), you might have this problem. It might turn normally with an empty hopper, and the manual advancer will work, but fully loaded it will skip and/or chop. The problem here is that the softer clear ratchet is, well, softer, and therefore more prone to wear and tear. Take a close look at the ratchet. The edge that catches the feeder axle (20, 02-49) should be crisp. If the edge is rounded, worn or torn, you have this problem, and you need a new ratchet. Call Tippmann. Try holding the sprockets in place while pushing the manual advancer. The ratchet should hang on the feeder axle. If the ratchet slips off, you have this problem. I actually carry extra ratchets to guard against this problem.
Ratchet Spring: Another recent problem is the spring that holds pressure against the ratchet and keeps it from turning back (11, 02-50), has rusted through, or somehow gotten bent out of shape. The obvious way to look for this is to pull the bottom plate off and look to see for a broken or wrongly bent spring (the spring should have a slight bend). Sympoms are similar to a broken ratchet, except with this one the Cyclone will be able to turn backwards.
Poor Paint: The Cyclone requires good paint, as it does manhandle the paint a bit. Don't use Wal-Mart paint, don't use old paint, don't use brittle tournament paint.
Other Sources: Of breaks, that is. Clean your Cyclone. Crud in the Cyclone will cause breaks. And make sure that the break is actually in the Cyclone. A breech break or barrel break might splatter back into the Cyclone, making it look like you had a Cyclone break (and the splatter might actually cause Cyclone breaks). And check for other obstructions in the breech that could stop a ball from fully entering the chamber. Some barrel adapters, for instance, extend too far back into the breech, and can cause breaks in this manner.
FAQ: Cyclone Feeder Problems
A relatively common post in this forum is the "my Cyclone isn't feeding," or "my Cyclone is breaking balls." Usually these are actually the same problem. Most Cyclone breaks are from partial or slow turning.
Hopefully this thread can be a collection of suggested checks and fixes. I'll start. The following is mostly a collection of things I have read, and certainly not all my own wisdom.
First: Option B, with any Tippmann gun, is to send it to Tippmann for repairs. They WILL fix your gun, and their interpretation of their own warranty is so liberal that they almost certainly won't charge for labor, no matter how old your gun is, and won't charge for parts either for newer guns. But since it takes some time for the gun to go from here to there and back - time for you without your gun - you should try the hints below first.
Parts references are to the A-5 parts chart.
General Trouble-Shooting: Whenever you have a problem (of any kind), you should first try some basic de-bugging to isolate the source of the problem. Try some different paintballs. Try a different tank. Take off your upgrades and try the gun stock. Mix and match different elements, and before you know it, you will know exactly where the problem lies.
Air Supply: Most Cyclone problems, in my experience, are really an air supply problem. The Cyclone needs a fair amount of air to work, and if it gets starved it won't be happy. The Cyclone is usually the first thing to go, so your gun might be working just fine otherwise, but your Cyclone will skip if it doesn't get enough air.
- Tank. Make sure your tank is full. If you have HPA, make sure the tank has output pressure of at least 750 psi. Make sure the tank valve is fully functional and not obstructed.
- Drive spring/RVA/Stock. If your drive spring is weak, not enough air will get to the gun, and the Cyclone will be starved. Try a different drive spring. If you have a rear velocity adjuster or a stock, or anything else that replaces the endcap, take it off. Some of these don't put enough pressure on the drive spring, which gives the same result as a weak drive spring.
- Regulators: If you have a regulator, make sure you don't have the pressure turned down too low. As with all air problems, your gun might fire fine, and your Cyclone might even keep up, to a point, but insufficient pressure will cause problems. Also remember that the perfect regulator setting for one tank might be too low for another tank, or too low for that same tank when it isn't full.
- On/Offs. Some drop-forwards or ASAs with on/off valves can leak or obstruct air flow if they are opened too much. Dirt and crud can also get caught in on/offs. Make sure the valves are clean. When opening the valves, only open until you reach full pressure, and then another full turn.
- Remotes: There are many places a remote might have a small obstruction or leak. Check each connector, and your slide check if you have one.
- ASA Pins: Some regulators/x-chambers/remotes/adapters push too far into the ASA so that the ASA pin strangles the air. Some ASAs on the tank end of remotes create the same problem. If this is the case, an extra o-ring stuck into the ASA (or remote adapter) will create the extra space needed.
- Leaks: Check hoses, connectors, o-rings. Remember, a small leak might let your gun shoot but still impede the Cyclone. Make sure to check the cup seal 02-63) on the piston (02-54) inside the Cyclone manual advancer. Make sure all o-rings are well oiled.
Friction: The Cyclone needs to be able to turn freely. Make sure your gun is well oiled. Oil in the ASA will make its way into the Cyclone and help it along, but some oil directly in the manual advancer won't hurt either. A little lithium grease under the ratchet (19, 02-53) might also help if the ratchet is not moving smoothly. Make sure that the feeder screw (8, PL-42A) is not tightened so hard that it keeps the ratchet from turning. This screw should be tightened just enough to keep the sprockets in place. To see if you have friction problems, try the manual advancer slowly. There should be some clicks and different degrees of resistance, but the Cyclone should still turn smoothly, and there should be no "hangs" - the Cyclone should keep up with the manual plunger.
Updates: Two updates have been issued for the Cyclone. Both are available free from Tippmann - just call and ask. To check for the first one, take off the bottom plate of your Cyclone (02-44). If the ratchet is black plastic, you do NOT have this update. The updated ratchet is clear plastic. To check for the second update, take a look at the bottom plate itself. The second update is a new bottom plate, and the new bottom plates have an "A" stamped on the outside. Pretty hard to miss. No "A", no update. The first update was intended to stop initial problems with Cyclone breaks resulting from the Cyclone hitting the balls too hard - hence the softer clear ratchet. The second update was intended to keep the first update from backfiring, by stopping "overtravel" of the piston, which the first update parts might allow, which leads to breaks. Tippmann also offers an optional flow control (like the RT flow control), for $15. Not usually required, it may give additional assurance when using brittle paint, by allowing you to limit the amount of air to the Cyclone.
Worn Ratchet: A common problem, mostly for people with the first update but not the second, but not impossible in other situations. If your Cyclone starts increasingly skipping shots (and you are shooting blanks), you might have this problem. It might turn normally with an empty hopper, and the manual advancer will work, but fully loaded it will skip and/or chop. The problem here is that the softer clear ratchet is, well, softer, and therefore more prone to wear and tear. Take a close look at the ratchet. The edge that catches the feeder axle (20, 02-49) should be crisp. If the edge is rounded, worn or torn, you have this problem, and you need a new ratchet. Call Tippmann. Try holding the sprockets in place while pushing the manual advancer. The ratchet should hang on the feeder axle. If the ratchet slips off, you have this problem. I actually carry extra ratchets to guard against this problem.
Ratchet Spring: Another recent problem is the spring that holds pressure against the ratchet and keeps it from turning back (11, 02-50), has rusted through, or somehow gotten bent out of shape. The obvious way to look for this is to pull the bottom plate off and look to see for a broken or wrongly bent spring (the spring should have a slight bend). Sympoms are similar to a broken ratchet, except with this one the Cyclone will be able to turn backwards.
Poor Paint: The Cyclone requires good paint, as it does manhandle the paint a bit. Don't use Wal-Mart paint, don't use old paint, don't use brittle tournament paint.
Other Sources: Of breaks, that is. Clean your Cyclone. Crud in the Cyclone will cause breaks. And make sure that the break is actually in the Cyclone. A breech break or barrel break might splatter back into the Cyclone, making it look like you had a Cyclone break (and the splatter might actually cause Cyclone breaks). And check for other obstructions in the breech that could stop a ball from fully entering the chamber. Some barrel adapters, for instance, extend too far back into the breech, and can cause breaks in this manner.
