|
|
Post by Trigga Nometry on Oct 26, 2005 8:07:10 GMT -5
By NPS and BT Paintball Designs Oct 25, 2005, 19:36National Paintball Supply, the World's largest paintball product supplier, is joining BT Paintball Designs, one of paintball's leading innovators, in defense of a lawsuit brought by Tippmann Sports, LLC, which is controlled by Summit Partners. "Tippmann Sports' claims are unwarranted," said Ben Tippmann, President of BT Paintball Designs. Among the allegations brought against BT Paintball Designs is a charge attempting to prevent Ben from using his own name in connection with BT Paintball Designs’ products. Gino Postorivo, President and CEO of National Paintball Supply, said "National Paintball Supply supports BT Paintball Designs and is undeterred by the tactics employed by Tippmann Sports." National Paintball Supply and BT Paintball Designs deny and will defend against Tippmann Sports' charges, which seek to restrict competition and limit the purchasing choices of paintball dealers, playing fields and ultimately players. National Paintball Supply and BT Paintball Designs anticipate vindication in the lawsuit, and note that already Tippmann Sports is attempting to dismiss one of the two patents it originally asserted. Over the past fifteen years, National Paintball Supply has sold products from countless manufacturers and believes BT Paintball Designs’ products are some of the very best to hit the market. BT Paintball Designs currently offers a very durable, innovative and competitively priced line of products, including the BT-4 marker and the Apex barrel system. Look for even more products coming in the near future from BT Paintball Designs. For information about National Paintball's comprehensive line of paintball products and services, visit the company's website www.nationalpaintball.com or call 1.800.346.5615. For information specifically about BT Paintball Designs, visit their website www.BTPaintball.com or call 1.260.424.9100. SOURCE: www.68caliber.com/news/industry/story041250.php
|
|
|
|
Post by FantasticDamage on Oct 26, 2005 8:42:29 GMT -5
That sucks...You can tell Summit has taken over Tippmann....Im still going to support Tippmann though, good products...and they are innovative.
|
|
|
|
Post by a5xrunner on Oct 31, 2005 0:23:20 GMT -5
Thats sickening... at a time when all the Paintball companies should be worrying about external struggles; such as bringing in more participants/customers and fighting PB related vandalism, theyre sueing eachother. It just makes me angry  . Edit: I think we should call Tippmann "Summit" from now on, cuz I dont think the old Tippmann would go about sueing other companies  . |
|
|
|
Post by Turtle-Prophet of Doom on Oct 31, 2005 8:51:04 GMT -5
It's no different than any other business today. You sell something, start another venture and the people sue you for using your own name.
|
|
Meph
Corporal
Posts: 50
|
Post by Meph on Nov 2, 2005 12:30:48 GMT -5
He's riding the Tippmann name, and he took the Tippmann design. Why shouldn't be be sued? He's using his father's name and innovation for his own personal gain. And the worst part about it all is people that get crappy BT stuff send it to Tippmann for them to fix, and they think bad of "the real" Tippmann.
|
|
|
|
Post by paintersghost on Nov 2, 2005 23:39:17 GMT -5
Just an FYI BT is The Nephew of Dennis Tippman not his son. The subsequent split from Tippman occured after the merger and BT did'nt like the way the company was progressing nor the role he was playing... ...PG
|
|
|
|
Post by Kreeper X on Nov 3, 2005 7:05:11 GMT -5
Honestly, I was wondering how long it would take for something like this to happen.
While the BT markers are basically Tippmann Clones that are built and work the same way, there is really no more grounds for Tippmann to claim that BT is using thier "designs" and profiting off the Tippmann name. At the beginning, BT was actaully called Ben Tippmann Paintball... They called him and he changed it to Battle Tested and then to just BT.
Further more, Tippmann has about as much right to sue and complain about the use of the "in-line blow-back" design as the Kingman has on the "stacked-tube blow-back" design.
I can't speak to the quality of the BT line of markers, but so far I LOVE the Apex.
If it's true that players are sending BT products to Tippmann for repairs, that just shows us the idiocy of said players.
This is just another example of the paintball industry imploding in upon itself trying to set up virutal monopolies and eliminate competition. It's happening all over the industry...
|
|
Meph
Corporal
Posts: 50
|
Post by Meph on Nov 3, 2005 8:18:03 GMT -5
Comparing the rights of the inline for Tippmann to the rights of the STABB for Kingman is ludacris!  It's not like Kingman where that design is a clone of a copy of a ripoff. Tippmann was the ORIGINAL in that design. So they DO have that right. It's their intellectual property from YEARS of research and development and millions of dollars spent to get where they are today. It's not a situation of somebody buying a patent and modifying it a decade later. Tippmann made the blowback, they made the inline design. And they have the rights to protect it how they will. You do know that the Stingray, Stingray II, Mirage, Mega Z, Sheridan XJS (or whatever), That JT crap that is out right now.... these are all inline design too. They have not gone after any of them, and they won't either. So this is NOT " set up virutal monopolies and eliminate competition." It's got personal along with the business. But business is still a larger factor. If you were in business for almost 20 years, improving your design, modifying it, making it better and better each time you release a new product. Working your ass off to get where you are today... And then one of your employees leaves and just makes the same exact product with only a couple minor changes externally, uses your famous name to build on his own sales and " reputation." I'm sure you'd just sit back and say " oh well." |
|
|
|
Post by Turtle-Prophet of Doom on Nov 3, 2005 9:10:44 GMT -5
Umm, technically isn't it his names too? As for the "theft" of the intellectual property, If he was key in the design of the marker or portion of the marker in question, and if the patents are in his name then how is it theft? I don't know this to be fact( I haven't checked) but, it seems to me that the man has some knowledge and he was working for Tippmann before the sale so, maybe he has every right to do what he is doing.
|
|
|
|
Post by dethspec on Nov 3, 2005 11:52:48 GMT -5
I think it has to do with BOTH his name and the fact that the guns are similar in design. I have inspected a BT-4 up closed (not fired or played with), it seems to have a mixture of A5, M98, and his own stuff. As to the patents and working on the design while employeed by Tippmann, I would assume he signed an intelectual property and non-compete clause. For example, a programer works at company a. While there he codes some unique code, that code is owned not by him, but the company he works for. Also, if he leaves company a and goes to company b that is in the same field, he violates his non-compete clause. I don't know if this applies here or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by Medina on Nov 3, 2005 12:16:42 GMT -5
Most of BT Paintball's products are for Tippmann markers... of course they'd get sued! Heck, even the stock BT-4 barrel has porting in the exact placement as the stock A-5 barrel! The pattern is slightly different but in the same place. No other paintball barrel has porting right smack in the middle of the barrel.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kreeper X on Nov 5, 2005 11:48:27 GMT -5
Comparing the rights of the inline for Tippmann to the rights of the STABB for Kingman is ludacris! It's not like Kingman where that design is a clone of a copy of a ripoff. Tippmann was the ORIGINAL in that design. So they DO have that right. It's their intellectual property from YEARS of research and development and millions of dollars spent to get where they are today. That was KINDA my point. Kingman would have NO LEGS TO STAND ON if they were to sue all the people out there making stacked-tube designs... But Tippmann was the first to use an inline design... I think that you're right on there. I can see that point as well, since I think that is what's made it the issue that it has become. I think that NPS has gotten BT on board and have set out to build very Tippmann-like product to move in on thier market. The issue I have is with the whole "sue everyone" attitude going on in the industry right now. But calling Ben Tippmann an employee... wasn't he a co-owner of the business? |
|
|
|
Post by 99GenX on Nov 7, 2005 8:12:21 GMT -5
I've been watching this thread and still stand at more of a loss of words - The entire situation just makes me want to say words that would get my mouth washed out with soap  BT straight up ripped off Tippmann’s design and it's as simple as this - If Ben owns the patents, and he broke away from Tippmann, could he not be suing them instead for them trying to continue and make process on the single tube design? Scratching all of the sketchy stuff out, and assuming he does not hold any of the patents, then Tippmann is almost assured to win. ---------- Aside from all the legal stuff which makes my blood boil and such... The BT-4 is, in my opinion, a better marker than the 98. BT has truly designed a far superior marker (IMO, see below for reasons) at a lesser price and even I give them props for that. My local paintball shop (and very known, they have 4 locations in NC, put several teams into World Cup each year, and ran a very large paintball site for a period of time) has even stopped stocking Tippmann markers other than the A5 because they feel the BT line of markers are more bang for your buck. With the introduction of an egrip with a decent board or at least adjustable ROF’s above 15BPS, I feel that it could possibly even surpass the A5 in desirability - There's not a wholeheckofalot you can change to a simple single tube design without the world having time to make a few circles around the sun and well, the BT-4 has a lot to be desired over the A5/98: I'm just saying, for what I have into my Tippmann, if I were to start from scratch and put the same amount of money into it, there wouldn't be much keeping me from trying out a BT-4. I have always desired an A5 with a center feed and the BT-4 is just about that (and in my defense, I have tried my damnedest to have my A5 converted; the job has been turned down by some of paintballs finest machinists and the only people I can find willing to try it are 15 year olds with a Dremel). Oh well, A54LYFE and all that good stuff… PS – Not feeling that great this morning so don't hold anything I say against me. I just opened up “calculator” instead of Microsoft Word and was trying to figure out why I couldn’t spell check my post like I always do… |
|
|
|
Post by Vashthestampede on Nov 7, 2005 8:28:50 GMT -5
If you want a centerfeed A5 whats the point of buying one in the first place?
And about the split If National want to compete with Tippmann they shouldn't be doing it by ripping off their designs and then just changing them ever so slightly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kreeper X on Nov 7, 2005 8:53:04 GMT -5
The thing is that Ben left because of the sale of the company... My guess is that he was one of those people who might have seen some bad things on the future and desided not to stick around and watch summit take over.
I think he was approached by NPS and MOST LIKELY was tasked to design something that could compete with Tippmann's line... His design is a LOT like the tippmann line with enough differences that he's not just taking what they made and making it cheaper...
There are differences. The rails, the feed neck, to name a few. There are some similarities as well. Inline tube, grip frame is about a carbon copy of the A-5.
What it will boil down to is if Tippmann owns the inline tube design. If they don't have a patent then EVERYONE can do it. As Meph pointed out, there are a ton of in-line markers and makers who've used the design in the past. BT can simply point to that. Hell JT just unloaded on the "scenario market" with that Tac-5...
The A-5 is still the premier in-line blow back simply because of the ease of use and maint...
Oh, and Vash... AWESOME sig... That's just too funny.
|
|
